5785/2024

A Clarification

Our question is very commonly posed, especially by teenagers. At TABC, I am often asked, “I just ate french fries at a meat restaurant; may I now have ice cream?” Before launching our discussion, we clarify that one may not eat pareve items prepared in a meat establishment together with dairy. One must wash and clean his mouth between such pareve items and dairy as between dairy and meat or fish and meat.

For simplicity’s sake, I refer to the separation between dairy and meat as a six-hour wait since it is the practice of Sepharadim, Teimonim, and most Ashkenazim.

 Category One —
Clean Meat Equipment

We address three variations of our question. The first is the easiest to handle. If one ate a pareve item made with meat equipment, he is not required to wait six hours. To clarify, we speak of equipment used to prepare meat that does not contain a trace of actual meat. Sephardic Jews may eat such food with dairy. However, Ashkenazic Jews refrain from eating this pareve item with dairy if the equipment cooked meat within 24 hours.

However, even if an Ashkenazic Jew eats a pareve item made using clean meat equipment, he does not have to wait six hours (Rama Yoreh Deah 89:3, Shach Yoreh Deah 89:19, and Rabi Akiva Eiger Yoreh Deah 89:3 s.v D’havi Nat bar Nat). Let us explain why:

The Rishonim give two reasons for prohibiting eating dairy after eating meat. First, Rashi (Chullin 105a s.v. Chasa) explains that meat has a strong taste that lingers in the mouth. Second, Rambam (Hilchot Ma’achalot Asurot 9:28) explains the concern is for meat lodged between teeth. The Shach (Yoreh Deah 89:2), Taz (Yoreh Deah 89:1), and Kaf Hachaim (Yoreh Deah 87:2) follow both Rashi and the Ramban.

Accordingly, although Ashkenazic Jews do not eat pareve food made in meat equipment with dairy, they need not wait six hours. The reasons for the waiting do not apply. The taste does not linger, and no meat is between the teeth. Therefore, there is no need to wait six hours.

Category Two —
Bits of Meat in the Pareve Item

Pareve items made in a meat establishment often contain tiny bits of meat. This happens because staff at a meat place are (rightfully so) not particular about strictly maintaining pareve items. Accordingly, we must assume pareve items at a meat establishment contain some meat bits. Therefore, even Sephardic Jews may not eat such pareve food with dairy. We must clean and wash our mouths after eating such pareve food before eating dairy.

However, the Shach (ad locum) surprisingly states that if we do not have to wait six hours after eating such pareve foods. The reasons for waiting six hours do not apply to tiny bits of meat. The taste does not linger, and there is little chance of meat being caught between teeth. The Chochmat Adam (40:13), Aruch Hashulchan (Yoreh Deah 87:13), and the Kaf HaChaim (Yoreh Deah 87:59) codify the Shach.

Therefore, such pareve items made at a meat place do not require a six-hour wait. At TABC, if a student asks me if he can drink milk after eating rice or noodles prepared at a Chinese restaurant, I respond that it is permissible after he washes and cleans his mouth.

Category Three — Pareve Cooked Together with Meat

The Shulchan Aruch (Y.D. 89:3) does not require a six-hour wait for a “tavshil shel basar, a pareve item cooked with meat.” However, the Rama (ad locum) adds that Ashkenazic Jews customarily refrain from dairy even after a tavshil shel basar. The Kaf HaChaim (Yoreh Deah 87:55) codifies the Chida that Sephardic Jews have also adopted this custom. Thus, one who eats a potato cooked with meat cholent must wait six hours before consuming dairy.   

 Category Four — French Fries Made in the Oil Used to Fry Chicken

The situation needing the most clarification is french fries made in oil used to fry chicken. Even in this case, the reasons for waiting six hours do not apply. While the fries absorb the chicken taste and may not be eaten with dairy, one generally does not find significant chicken pieces in the fries (although substantial amounts of chicken grease remain).

The question depends on distinguishing between tavshil shel basar and the Shach’s cases. The chicken’s impact is less on the fries case than in the potato cooked with meat (for the pareve item and meat item are not cooked simultaneously) but more than in the Shach’s situation. Where do we draw the line? 

Rav Hershel Schachter rules that it all depends on intent (see Darkei Teshuva 89:42). If the cook did not intend for the meat taste to be imparted into the french fries and used the same oil for convenience, we do not define the fries as “tavshil shel basar.”   

Interestingly, an argument for leniency might be derived from Rav Shmuel Felder’s strict stance towards this matter (Voice of Lakewood, February 25, 2011). He believes that te’imat yisrael (an observant chef tasting to discern if the fries have a chicken taste, see Darkei Teshuva 89:42) does not help since the flavor of chicken or meat grease and vegetable oil is very similar. 

Cooking fries in oil used to fry chicken or meat does not enhance the fries’ flavor more than vegetable oil. Thus, chefs do not intend to enhance the fries with a taste of chicken since its impact is no different from vegetable oil. They reuse the oil used for chicken solely due to time and space limitations. Thus, the six-hour wait after eating pareve food fried in such oil might not be necessary.  

Reason to be Strict

When addressing this topic with Shaarei Orah congregant Shalom Shushan, TABC student J.J. Guralnik, and my older son Binyamin, they responded that intuitively, a six-hour wait is necessary after fries prepared in oil used to fry chicken. They feel it is too close for comfort to the potato cooked in a cholent pot. Rav Zvi Sobolofsky agrees and told me that although one could argue that a six-hour wait is unnecessary after such fries, it is proper to wait six hours. We must respect the intuition that something feels halachically improper.

The bottom line is, although we can make a compelling argument that a six-hour wait is unnecessary in many cases after eating fries made in oil used to fry chicken — it is best to be strict and wait the six hours. This is especially true since many poskim agree with Rav Felder. These include Rav Moshe Heinemann (https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/706/meat-and-dairy-a-kosher-consumers-handbook/, footnote 10) and Rav Shmuel Fuerst (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPP0HzN_yBk&ab_channel=Kosherdotcom.

Conclusion – A Case of Safek

However, one may be lenient in the case of safek, where one cannot verify if the chef cooked the fries in the same oil as the chicken. The stakes are not high since it is only customary to be strict regarding  tavshil shel basar, and the six-hour wait for Ashkenazic Jews is also a minhag. Thus, one may be lenient in case of a doubt that cannot be readily verified.